All right guys welcome I'm excited this week I really am why welcome to the Ryder Cup special edition of the rickshaw's Golf Show podcast 202 radical weeks honestly I I after this weekend's solheim cup which we are going to talk about because it was Bloody epic I am thruffing at the mouth quite literally yeah it's a bit four I know why is it blue I can't wipe it off uh. For the radical this week of course is I just I just honestly I am in. So much excitement anticipation this week's episode uh wants me and guys chatted for a period of time about how excited we are on our slime cup we've got a guest on today.

Which honestly stay tuned because I think it's one of the most insightful uh podcasts we've ever done yeah it was a proper grown-up conversation with the course architect the course designer of Marco Simone the Ryder Cup Course in Rome Dave Sam soon we chat everything about Ryder Corp the course design how did how did it become um the course it is now if you watched this week. So last week should I say now the most recent break 75 Dave made somewhat of a cameo um in in the video this week we'd sat down and was it last week we recorded open two weeks ago now. And we had like you said such an insightful chat with him it's such an interesting bloke. And I think people listening truthfully are really really going to enjoy this. So yeah sit back. And and kind of uh wait for that interview because this is going to be a bumper bumper length podcast this week um yeah. So I'm excited I'm actually going to the Ryder Cup I'm flying out on Thursday um I am there. For kind of a bit of a chill out Vibe on Thursday I might go to the course I might watch a bit of practice but I'm going to be there at 4 30 a.m Friday morning I am going to be on that First Tee Box front. And center look out for me if you're watching on TV I am going to inject that atmosphere into my veins my my blood will Rumble Loom this week with European blood. And I genuinely I was there in Paris in 2018 it's one of the most memorable sporting um events even just at that Friday tee off the first player first players team off like gives me goosebumps you know what you know what's crazy. So I dropped you off at the airport to go to the Ryder Cup in 2018 obviously I didn't attend and truthfully I was happy that you're going I know you're looking forward to it I wasn't remotely jealous that I don't know why I wasn't bothered. And he was going to watch it on TV he was like oh yeah I'm sure have a good time this year however. I can't go I've got some family plans. But I actually am super super super that's three super make it four super jealous you you your Ryder Cup tone has changed enormously and I know I know you still said last week about not sure what side you know you're not as fully committed to Europe. But as a sporting event you can't you cannot neglect it's it's magnitude hear me out I am committed to Europe I want Europe to win don't get that wrong however. if it was it never will be again if it was still GB. And I or even just England I would be even more passionate about it however. I am European Europe are going to win here you've heard it here first. And I'll be watching the TV for two reasons firstly to watch the radicop obviously and all the action I'll also be looking for you in the crowd oh you'll see Ricky yeah maybe you'll be in the Swanky VIP bit. So I'm going to be getting I'm going to be getting as close to the action as I physically am allowed to without getting kicked out am I right. And thinking the Ryder Cup you've been obviously you know is it the most Rowdy fancy to me it's amazing honestly I I'm trying to think now how many Ryder Cups have I been to um I went to obviously Paris I went to Celtic Manor in 2010 I didn't go to Gleneagles in 2014 because um my daughter had just been born that's right she she wasn't above we were gonna go. But you have to be six months or something before you can go. And she was only like two months old um obviously. So I've actually it's only been my third Rider club actually I felt like I'd been to more um Celtic Manor was crazy I mean it was a really random Celtic manner because it's 2010 um you know I could be proper Ricky back then.

Like this was way before the world of YouTube yeah I went with um I was I was a lubricated you could almost be as far as dick couldn't yeah I was a dick yeah to the point where I did face plant uh I was running down a very wet Hill yeah. And I face planted a path knock my teeth out quite literally my two front teeth were cracked in half no they're not real in your two teeth half of my two front teeth are not real because of Ryder Cup oh my word I touched that if you look very close you can see a very faint kind of hairline through the middle. And that was because of um my friend um I went to the Celtic Manor with my friend Jack right surname Daniels ma nice um. So me dick the dick the dick me is being a big dick. And and Jack yeah mate um he led me astray Jack that day led me astray. And I ended up running down a hill very wet hill face planted the tarmac ended up being I don't want to say kicked out um but escorted out and weren't allowed to return I wonder if YouTube hadn't taken off for you where you'd be now you'd be the assistant Pro pushing for you still let go that every weekend as little as a little donut Fiesta I'd be in a bad state so that was Celtic Manor um that was the that was the Monday finish as well. So that was literally because of the rain it went to a Monday finish I woke up Tuesday not even knowing the result really yeah. So sound of a good note so me and Jack aren't going this time okay Jack's not you. And Mr Goose you've moved up in the world I can be Maverick. And I can go with goose my partner. So uh yeah. So then.

I'm gonna go sensible this year Paris was sensible I only went. For one day last year you've gone full circle or you had a spell in 2018 right getting mature a few kids under your belt you've gone back now gone worse so Paris I was a lot more sensible I went. For Friday I I had a great time don't get me wrong I ended up in some very random French restaurant at 11 p.m on on in France yeah that's what it is. And that was that was a very eventful Friday yeah. So who knows with three full days at the Ryder Cup and and I'm an I'm a problem when I'm excited about something I feel like I can imagine you getting absolutely blooded somehow wangling away inside the ropes because you've played the golf course twice now. And been around on a boogie ones I know Dave Sampson yeah don't listen that rough mate I feel like well yeah I might be a pest. So I need to be on my best behavior I need to go with a professional mind um and I'm going to go to enjoy it. But like I say my issue is when I get too giddy. For something and I get too excited which I I genuinely am. For the Ryder Cup I fear for my own safety how many teeth I will return with it's gonna be a big question well if you only lose half of one that's a that's an improved Improvement. And then.

I'm gonna make a commitment right now on air okay on a live honor live on rickshaw's radio Monday yeah after the Ryder Cup yeah I fly home to Manchester I'm going to commit to being here Monday after the Ryder Cup in whichever way state. Or form I'm in yeah. And we will do the 203rd episode of the rickshaws Golf Show podcast post Ryder Cup I won't be here I'm on holiday oh great [Laughter] [Music] [Music] I think that's why I'm more excited correct um the the solheim cup was absolutely fantastic this week. And we need to talk about something real did you see my tweets no I don't go on Twitter anymore okay well literally not been on Twitter. For years right I tend to turn into whatever it's called I've got I've had some um thoughts on it which yeah I'm gonna read them now not really a little bit not really come on okay. So let's talk about the solheim cup first it was amazing I didn't watch as much as I would like admittedly. But I did watch a good chunk on Sunday I watched Friday morning. So um I put it on the kids were were really interested at first I put it on purpose because it was early tea after before school put it on. And again the atmosphere on that first team was amazing like I say it I would love to see a future. And I don't think we'll ever see one because it's almost two different governing bodies. Or whatever however. it all works where you could almost have the the female solheim Cup and the Ryder Cup on the same venue the same week like if it was Monday Tuesday Wednesday female you know female radical. And then.

Go straight into the men's I like it I also thought this would never happen what about a hybrid or a mix yeah I was thinking this the other day genuinely now I think if it was six of the the best European men. And six of the best European women then.

Obviously the same for America that could be special could be really good so I I think you could have all three could be a whole week of festivals like I think you could have every one of those you can have a female version a male version. And a mix to All Stars yeah I think you could have everything um. So yeah I watched a bit Friday morning it obviously didn't go the Europeans way there were four nil down in the morning sessions. And otherwise I kind of looked and went oh God we're gonna get batter there we did really well in the afternoon to claim some some dignity back we'd be brilliant on the Saturday again probably similar to you add family commitments on Saturday. So I couldn't watch as much Sunday yesterday I was absolutely glued to it yeah like like like it meant the world to me I was glued to every single shot um that the caliber of golf played under that much pressure it just blows my mind this is something out of such zombie cars we've all seen it you get the odd fella who's a [ __ ]. Or an idiot whatever on Twitter who plays off two who pipes up every now and again and says I could they could compete on the lpj tour whatever right nonsense they're nowhere near the level but one of the things I was noticing is obviously we know the women don't hit it as far as the men. And and don't hit the followers we hit it the ball speed is like 150 with the driver what they do obviously it's straight every time anyway. But what they do that is. So incredible I have shots like 140 yards 150 yards it's absolutely stiffing it like so close to the hole I I think as well where they're phenomenal are those kind of 180 190 shots where hybrid. For you and me it's like maybe a five or six item for tour Pros it's seven seven iron probably Rory can get there they're hitting these like hybrids with. So much accuracy it really is. So it's so good the golf was amazing head wall at the end there where she birded I think she birded 16 17. And actually ended up uh um winning on the 18th what a story that was because she didn't get a start till Saturday afternoon. And then.

She went out there in the singles and unbelievable uh cigada Segunda sorry Segunda what a solheim cup it was that was insane she didn't lose a match as we now say I don't like tie them out I don't in fact I hate tide what the the word yeah yeah I hate the face there's no heart there's no all square it's all Thai now very Americanized is it to appeal to the non-golf I suppose because all square would be like what does that mean possibly tied. So much similar possibly a fan don't like it um it'll probably grow on us in in time but um honestly the golf was just absolutely incredible. And and it was great that the spotlight being shown I think it was I think that's the my only critique because normally solheim cup. And Ryder Cup are on opposite years it's only because of covert they've actually now become on odd years. And my only fear if they did become really close together as in solheim cup straight into Ryder Cup is that solheim cup wouldn't be maybe as as uh spotlighted it's a felt like this weekend it was like it was all about the solheim cup which was you look all over social media. And it's just like oh my God this is this is such a spotlight. And from a personal standpoint Sunday afternoon when I was watching um I've got two girls. And a little boy my girls at nine and seven sat down with me on the couch and we were watching it they got. So into it like they're asking me questions how do you how do you hit that shot daddy out the sand door. And I was like I don't really know that's your uncle guy like they were like oh my God that was such a great shot. And and because I was showing passion with the European team. And I was showing passion when a putt went in. Or missed obviously they were mimicking me. And kind of copy somewhat copying my reactions and stuff but they really got into it and I was very very emotional at the end watching solheim cup I think any team event anyway when I see happiness. And what have you I get super emotional but sat there on the couch I had one girl in one arm one girl and the other watching it and I'm like Oh my this is like this is one of the best moments of my life the the gulf wasn't Leon McGuire is an absolute Savage Oh my God is that poor mother that Roseanne gave her yeah was it dead long look it was on I think 16. yeah. And it was. For the win of the whole for 32. yeah on 17. And Roseanne gave it to her I don't know I must admit I was on the uh stepper at the gym believe. Or not so I was watching mostly listening yeah I don't quite understand why she gave it the other thing was Rose Zang had about four fourth apart it was still her turn. So whether she thought God if I missed this or I don't know but it was very weird. But no it was well about about 40 minutes before the end of of play I 100 thought USA were going to win it like they were they were dominating in matches they were head the projections got them at 15. And a half points and there's I know there's been a bit of controversy online well European didn't win it but the whole idea of the when you've the holding champions of it you only have to retain it this is my point you only have to get to 14 points. And you retain it I would have loved uh Pederson at the final match to have actually beat Lexi Thompson or she could have halved I think couldn't she yeah correct you want to beat her though which I mean that put that Lexi hold on 17 was incredible I mean uh Pederson was in a super spot. But it would have been nice to take it down down the last because she was four up Lexi was four up with like five to play. Or something I know that I mean I think he should have missed that part I think we would have got the half in the end. But no that was my it was an amazing event it was. So good to see women's golf Thrive into see it being rightly so so high on the agenda of just generic sport for the weekend never mind just for golf or for women's golf it was. So taught about the coverage was really good from what I watched um. And I think. For me personally people may disagree or not that the week before the Ryder Cup it really got me more excited. For it I felt like there was more attention on it the fact it was all this back-to-back week was really good if it was in let's just say March random time I don't know if it had been his height. For it I don't know much even next.

Year yeah I don't know. But it was really the only thing. And again I put this on Twitter semi joke and look some bites but there's some truth in it I don't feel super comfortable with the tie situation at the end but only because in some sports I do get it. So let's just say make an example we've got Tyson Fury who's got a chat who's got a belt in boxing and you know he's won that whatever obviously and then.

He fights against Anthony Joshua and he and ends up in a draw well Joshua's not beating him so Tyson Fury retains that belt until there's another Challenger I think that makes perfect sense because he's won the belt legitimately he's got the belt the other person can't beat him. So he keeps the belt the only thing with it in team sports and a lot of the response on Twitter were like always the same in the rather cop is same in the ashes. And they get all out so it doesn't mean that could other sports do it it's correct I just felt like with it being a tie. So then.

Be presented with the trophy and not that they shouldn't celebrate obviously because if it doesn't feel right in fact I won it I think it shouldn't end in a tie I think there should be some decider. And the other reason as well I think it's a bit dodgy is because again if you watch the Box analogy. And Tyson Fury keeps the belt Tyson Fury is always Tyson Fury. So if he draws look at the belt then.

He fights somebody else and either keeps battle loses the belt but with the solheim Cup team or the Ryder Cup team or Cricket the ashes the players can change. And do change. And rookies come in and people go out the team so let's just say now obviously um the European Salon Corp have got the the trophy the cup the next.

Year if they draw and they retain it again it could be literally a completely different set of players yeah it just doesn't feel right that that's the there should be something I think. Or the other argument now this is controversial it would have meant that actually America would win it. So it wouldn't be ideal what about we know there's a huge Advantage being at home yeah the crowd set up the course what about if it ends in a tie a draw the away team win I wouldn't like that one as much well no. But um I get your point I do I get your point. And and um I that I think that's why I was. So desperate for them to get to 14 and a half just almost like it was it was a it was clear we've won it we have gone out there. And we've won it I think like I say the advantage of as you mentioned in boxing it's almost like you hold the title. And yeah. And it's then.

For the Challenger to take it off yeah. But then.

Also your point of swapping players is valid I think you've got some really valid points I think what I'd like to see is almost each Captain pick a player. And they go head-to-head sudden death yeah. And imagine yeah it'd be. So good like imagine just starting from it doesn't even matter start from the first hole and the first player to win the hole wins that whole thing imagine the scenes there yeah. And and that would again Elevate the spotlight on on whether it's solar home court whether it's ryderco because it happens in Ryder Cup as well you've obviously you get ties and you know we we've had it in the past where European have retained it USA retained in the past um I suppose it just it goes back into history it's probably how it was many many years ago when Samuel Ryder set it all up. Or um you know is it it's pinged into solheim um the solheim family set it up. So um I'm not sure no I'd like to have seen a definitive winner yes. But the end of the day the rules are if it's a tie the returning team win it yeah. And the scenes afterwards I mean you had the king of Spain there all around the 70s I mean I I mean. And obviously we've got some really good friends who were there we've got insi yeah we did a great job at commentating I own a Stephen huge you know both Friends of the show were both there in the action. And they both did an unbelievable job Sophie Walker as well Sophie Walker of course Sophie Walker was there you know to be able to like literally get a microphone as soon as these players have come off the match bang asking them really good questions hard hitting questions. And um yeah it was brilliant do you think then.

Question. For you with whenever I've well I don't watch as much women's golf as I'd like to and I don't watch as much men's golf as I'd like to um just you know commitments in the time it's always on so I want to watch more golf holistically and rightly or wrongly and people might pick up on this and not like if I have to choose between the one I would normally gravitate towards the men's I'm more interested in it that's just the fact however. whenever I have watched women's golf and I've watched some of the majors or this solheim cup I have really enjoyed it think about it like when wimbledon's on. And you've got the men's tennis the women's tennis and that's the one sport I possibly pick up I know football's really growing but I feel like in tennis in particular the women's game does feel as big as the men's I would say you watch Wimbledon regardless of who's on correct if you if you're gonna put the TV on. And I I experience that in July and my wife is kind of quite into tennis I'll flick it on as I should watch Wimbledon. And you flick it on and it actually doesn't matter who's playing and it's the same when we have our you know British favorites you know we had a radakanu now that alsandi Murray and and I thought we get behind them regardless of Jan don't we I wonder if if we had the Open Championship if I don't know how it would work how logistically would look but if it was the men's. And women's I was at the same time at the same venue. Or like I said the week before. Or something would that height in the women's game or an interest or maybe would it almost suffocate it and the men's story would I just thought this week for example is a perfect example of them kind of another not the same venue. But kind of the equivalents coexisting together in such a close time frame and to me it feels like a big success it felt as close to similar events this year than ever before obviously it's back to back on TV which is. And all the graphics and everything will be the same. For this week as it will be. For next.

Week for the Ryder Cup it's it's the fact that to some degree you had one in today.

And one in Italy that kind of feels and I don't know it's European it's the same it feels like it's very close to connect it was on different time zones. And things like that um you've got you've got a lot of characters in the world of female golf now obviously Charlie Hall was a great player in the in the in the salahan cup um you know we know a lot more players now in the female game because you know you've only got 24 players to think about rather than you know 200 not 200. But 120 at a normal event um yeah you see those sections on Sky Sports like get to know. And I'd like the team to ask them a question like who would you least want to drive you to the airport whatever that was good because you got to see the fun side of the team. And the different personalities and something a bit more serious something a bit more out there and that was that was really good it has got me even more excited. For the Ryder Cup you're right but I do think it was a great week. For women's golf and I feel like people like Iona and NC and Sophie I've said Friends of the channel who do such a good great thing. For women's golf I bet they're feeling really proud that something that they obviously spend so much time in and around and are. So passionate about as this week had such a big impact on the World of Golf kind of full stop it was it was great yeah honestly honestly honestly honestly loved every minute of it. And like I said the memories out of all I've had a fantastic memorable year of certain things whether it's going to Augusta. Or open or whatever it may be what genuine that Sunday afternoon sat there my two daughters watching the solar handcuff and them getting so into it and like even today.

Asking me when can we when can we go to the driving range next.

Right music sorry yeah God like well it is it because I've never wanted to be a pushy parent you know I really try. And make sure that I'm not pushing him to go to driving range I spoke about on the podcast before they've got some new golf clubs which they're absolutely loving little golfing golf clubs they're called it's like dolphin but spelled with a G and I've been to the driver range a few times I'm only getting 50 balls to get through it really quick way too quick and as soon as they threw it like can I get more balls can I get more golf balls I'll go no let's go. And the light chomping at the bit but I want to keep that excitement and for me anything I can do to fuel that fire at the moment whether it's solheim cup whether it's I mean I'm not going to be present. For the Ryder cups obviously I'm there but whether it's they cut a bit of the ride of corporate start watching a few YouTube videos or probably good good fans but like like if they can start anything they can feel that fire is good. For the game I agree I think. For me and I've said this before I can under as much as I love golf obviously you love golf I'm getting everyone listening. And watching loves golf I can also understand how people can see if it's boring. And certainly if you got an absolute non-golfer so you've got no interest. And put no offense. But the DP World Tour on on a Thursday afternoon and it's random guys you've never heard of and it's the fourth hole and it's so I can get why people like I'm not into this I challenge anybody who's got even the most loose interest in sport. Or competitiveness to watch and at the solheim cup or the Ryder Cup on the Sunday in the singles when a player is going down 17. And has a put of eight foot to win the whole or win the match or win the radical the solheim cup but it's so kind of simple in format and it's it's manual versus Manos so to speak I think that is the best way to introduce people is what golf can be at its best because that is I can't fathom how someone can't find that exciting I know. For me it's like it's this idea with the Ryder Cup that I would not and I joked about Friday about being there at 4 30 and I will I will be on that first here at the crack of dawn I want to be there soaking the atmosphere in because there's not a first tea like it in the World of Golf. And that's why the grandstand is. So huge and that's why when we've got Dave Sampson on later his design plans were to make sure that Amphitheater around the first hole was electric. And why you've got to have such a great Ryder Cup course with risk reward rival path forwards you've got a you've got to tailor it to that kind of middle section of the back nine whether it's you know 13 through to 17 have got to be really interesting holes to make match Play exciting um but but I don't get like I'm not bothered about the first to the open really somewhere it's quite they normally have a quite a nice story whether it's a local player or you know this year is Matty Jordan team that was the first hole on Thursday if I'm not racing there to be. But for the for the Ryder Cup and the salahan cup that that first T Energy all the very way to the very last putt drops in every single shot matters and and you could like I like that to some degree I I don't want to turn this into like a controversial kind of topic but to some degree when you look at the format of of radical or solheim cup three days action-packed it's not it's not four days of stroke play it's quite condensed into an area it's loud it's got music it's got team elements what's it what does it sound like live sounds like live. But lives rubbish but it does yeah there's elements of it absolutely. But but they I I'm not I don't catch the feels with with Crushers or exactly women because I'm so like because and again it might be how a how a more um neutral fan maybe watches solheim cup or radical like an Australian fan or a Canadian fan or whoever probably watches and girls I'm not really that bothered about it I think. So but I think there's two things that are different I think with something like the Ryder Cup. Or the solheim cup you don't really choose in most good team sports where you you don't choose to become a fan of whatever that team might be so I didn't choose to become a fan of Liverpool Football Club show the comments below now whatever my dad was a Liverpool fan I'm from no no not too far away from the ground Etc. So that's your tour group supporting I know your little boys now supporting man united because he's been almost told by you and that's how it works convinced yeah you know the American Ryder Cup fans. And soulheim cup fans are the choosing that's were the front typically. And same for us being European so that makes it much more enticing or um exciting not only from a Fan's point also from The Players Point of View like let's be honest the players that are playing the radical. For America or for Europe and not only so honored and privileged to be played and to be picked but to be representing their continents or their country they're naturally going to have. So much more passion which will lead to why the amazing golf shots. And fist pumps or it will lead to massive breakdowns. And pressure and Yips that makes it so much more fun to watch when you look at live with these made up teams that nobody I don't think really cares about from a fan perspective some do obviously not many do the players really kill the playing. For the Crushers or for the smashes or for the but whatever not really they just want to get paid so I think it loses that real meaning that real you know I mean that that's what it loses that's what live lacks I tried to watch live this weekend. For a few minutes I lasted about 30 seconds boring yeah the other other thing is like when you actually look at solheim Copper Ryder Cup you're right a lot of the reasons why you support those more. But also the once every two years it's not it's not 12 times a year it's once every two years like whoever wins this Ryder Cup will be a radical legend. For two years final one than him this is what I thought yesterday night final one we have the solar handcuff. And the Ryder Cup a week apart every two years and that alternating year there's a the captains of the last Ryder Cup come together salute Donald and uh Pederson is it Suzanne yeah come together they pick six from the men six from the women of the previous teams. And they battle out against the US so there you go free idea for you there and that's like but it's a one day it's gonna be called the guy oh it's two days yeah it's two days you have singles on the Saturday. Or the Sunday the Saturday they are foursomes. So it's just two two lots but everyone plays the foursomes and everyone plays the singles oh except for 20 no 24 points up. For grabs would that be the same yeah yeah 12 from each side still just it's six man Six Women six men Six Women that'll be class. And then.

In the off season you have a PGA Tour versus live yeah wow there we go there's some ideas. For you everybody right like I say Enjoy the radical of everybody and we are just about to flick the switch. And tune into this interview that we had with Dave Sampson one more thing is this is our Tuesday Wednesday we've got another video at Marco Simoni coming out. So if you've not learned enough about the rough and the Bonkers and where not to hit it yes Wednesday we're going to do a better job to show you where we should hit it correct because we played a lot better on Wednesday. And we did scrambles that helped that helped a lot yeah enjoy I thought there's more things to cover. But I don't think there is I think that's it um we did actually have a nice little uptick last week in people reviewing the podcast on Apple. And giving us some nice five stars and it meant a lot to me she has shed a tear well you showed a team at the solheim cup out of my phone on Apple and just a little tear just about to hit the screen so please feel free to rate US an apple five stars or four or five ideally there's a also should we talk about the potential podcast golf day oh quickly yeah it's a very good shout. So just a quick one on that anyone that's come into the live podcast that is I'm still going ahead we can't wait that's Friday the 13th of October at Marriott Worsley Park ticket sold out tickets sold out very quickly which was brilliant we've not really touched on it too much. So I didn't want anyone that's bought tickets thing I heard about that much but it's happening it's gonna be a great day we can't wait but also in conjunction with that the Marriott worthy part himself are running the Marriott uh Worsley Park Invitational on the same day. So it's kind of not really massively aligned towards but they thought they'd utilized the fact that hopefully as people come in that maybe not played the golf course before so if you've got the Friday off work and you want to play um it looks like a really good day so what we've done in our Facebook group we have shared the poster and there's also a link we'll also put this in the description the link in the description of the audio podcast and the video podcast but essentially this prize up for grabs it's um 11 o'clock shotgun star up for 92 people um prize presentation at 4pm onwards there's handicap prizes the first second and third nearest depends on all the path threes longest driving 18 obviously we're not playing because that'll be mine to really be accomplished we won't be there for that matter I'll be obviously winning all the nearest pain yes we won't be there. For the Invitational but we'll be probably around the facility probably four or five o'clock so if you're playing in that you've not got a ticket you might bump into us I'm gonna say it's not exclusive for people 92 spots get involved if you are coming in you want to bring a mate get involved in the golf day. And then.

We'll see you afterwards after a few bevies for the live show right without further Ado sit back and honestly it's so Keen this incredible chat and information from Dave Sampson the course designer of Marco Simone Dave welcome to the podcast thank you very much describe the feeling when you first got that phone call or email to say you have been chosen and picked to design the Ryder Cup Course in Rome well I didn't know that I was going to be given the job because um you know at EGD we have four designers. And EGD were part of the 20 2014 bid with the Italian golf Federation. So initially you know we were just reviewing three courses in. And around the Rome area and part of that bid Marcus money was the preferred course as part of that bid. So there was only 2015 you know that Rome gets announced um. And then.

Sort of our MD came in sort of 2016 2017 and sort of said would you mind sort of seeing what you can do routing wise with Marcus moroney obviously. So excited wow um. But yeah um I mean it's it's a huge honor. And a privilege to to have been given this you know challenge um you know challenge because it's quite a jigsaw you know because I don't know if a lot of people know this obviously we first off we had a great time in Rome a few weeks ago playing the golf course with you was was honestly one of my highlights of the of the year because it's great to be able to pit the brains of quite literally person who plotted the holes. So why the hell did you put that bunker there why do you think that was a good place to put them in water houses why have you made this whole. So difficult no. But it was it was a lot of it I shouldn't have been hit your answer could have been stop hitting it yeah um. But yeah it was a real honor to be able to go around the golf course. But I found so much information from yourself in that couple of days we spent together oh sounds quite romantic in the fact that Marcos Simone was a golf course like there was already a golf cart that was a that was an already because this didn't golf club . And you had to go in and turn 27 holes that was existing there into an 18 hole Ryder Cup golf course that was going to host this year's Ryder Cup which is happening this very week um like that in itself is a is a very very complicated Challenge. And like say a jigsaw yeah I think that analogy of a jigsaw is is perfect um because it's not you know you're trying to you know you you we knew it was a blank canvas we knew it was a new site that you know going back to the bid you know the initial bid was to like maybe stretch out a few greens add a few teas just to lengthen the course. But to try and retrofit in all those jigsaw pieces that you mentioned you know that was that was too difficult um. So we knew it was a blank canvas. But you know write a cup it's you know you're obviously trying to find like any new piece of of land you're trying to find the best golf holes but for a Ryder Cup you're also trying to find the best golf holes for spectators and for the match play format match play format as well but I mean you know the infrastructure the roads Hospitality units you know factoring in 100 meter by 40 40 meter deep you know Hospitality unit into you know the gulf site um you know then.

Factoring in okay where where the bus is going to come where the people are going to come where are you going to put merchandising media practice all those sort of things yeah it's a jigsaw I think that was that was one thing obviously Rick said we've been very lucky to play it recently. And obviously it was the Open Championship quite recently as well we spent a lot of time. But being on site at Marco Simone the infrastructure it does feel bigger than like the open in a sense it obviously opens massive. But it's quite kind of spread out on the certain areas of maybe quieter holes and whatever but it just feels like so much more vast and I can't imagine it back to play there with those crowds full but that must go into consideration massively this Spectators like you've said yeah the spectators um. And you know as part of this you know the site and what it gave us I mean obviously a huge amount of elevation change um. But there was a central core area where we we try to root the holes you know we got the first in there which is really important. But then.

You've got to factor in you know that grandstand that's going to be going around the first. But to get the first in there and then.

The routing brings you back with the seventh with hospitality around and then.

Obviously we're trying to bring well we bring the golfer back in for those key holes right at the end of a Ryder Cup match 16 and 17 where you where you you know I mean it is you are sort of in a way trying to create a stadium yeah you know. And you're trying to for for players and and for The Spectator and trying to trying to maximize that opportunity and that experience for for the players and for the spectators I suppose to some degree when you actually look at it the other way around like an Open Championship those golf courses are. So old like they've they've almost had to pixel for those guys is trying to get the right amount of hospitality in grandstand merchandise. And often they have to sacrifice something like Royal Liverpool this year they have to sacrifice the whole driving range in the middle of the golf course and the layout actually even changes of that Golf Course to allow for it but the old course that said Andrews like that shouldn't be big enough to hold an Open Championship. But two years last year it did with ridiculous amounts of Spectators they almost have to go above. And beyond to get that in where with Dave's challenge of a rider Corp it's like it is somewhat of a blank canvas. But you've got to now build a championship golf course that's exciting within this kind of Stadium structure word that you've just said that a couple of times. And Dave said stadium is true because when we played again very fortunate to play um highlight Royal Liverpool with the ground stands up yes you were hitting certain t-shirts with a grand stand around you. And that felt almost like a mini Stadium but there was something that Mark. Or Simone where a lot of even places even in the middle of a fur where you felt you were part of something the whole place feels like a stadium. And that's not any Spectators in there yeah well I mean you know you do have those three tiered structures which definitely give you that imposing feeling when you're playing there um. But I think yeah I mean going back to the routing I think that's one of the things you know getting that golfer to experience that you know First Tee you obviously want to get them into their you know sort of Amphitheater um. And then.

They you know they go off seven and they come back and they you know experience again I think. For a spectator you're going to be you know you can just sit in. And around 1 7 16 17 you you will see everything you'll see everything um. And and and that really did form you know the core concept um of the routing. And yeah you know we know you know you know um British opens. And stuff you're trying to retrofit in you know those those stands and make sure that you fit everything in but you know we sort of had that opportunity right at the beginning and um I mean we're very fortunate that uh Ryder Cup Europe. And bring you know they've got all that experience and you're working with them to try and you know maximize you know what what that site has yeah more personally from yourself. And you talked about EGD before from for our listeners and viewers European Golf design um when you first started to get into course design okay how many years ago was that okay. So so I've been at the European Golf design for 19 years now wow um but I have a very interesting way into golf architecture I was studying um architecture at University. But my passion was always to get into into golf um. And this was in South Africa where I was at University. And yeah came over because my grandfather who is well she was very ill at the time came over. And my good friend from University who was in London knew that this is what I wanted to do. And there was a competition in Golf World magazine scribbled some entries down on a piece of paper to Heathrow posted them off. And yeah there was a foot in the door yeah that was you designing holes. Or a golf course so this is just it was just one whole it was courses in Finland which is now yeah very good golf course um. So it's part five and um and did you win yeah did you want it yeah yeah. So that was that was that was the foot in the door. And then.

A couple of years later so what made what made that particular hole stand out to be honest I think it was probably just the closest one to what the architect wanted to look like um oh it's just a left to right dog leg par five you know reachable. And two for the good players but yeah a couple of bunkers you know I think having done architecture I could I was pretty good at reading a map. And you could see where the low is. And see where the high points were. And just sort of you know connect the dots and you know where you can see where the other green was 14 green it was the 15th hole you can see where the green was in 16 T's. And it's literally well you know if you understand a little bit about golf you sort of know what you know what you're looking for yeah. So so that started your journey into golf architecture and then.

How many in this 19 years of doing it and being with European Golf design how many golf courses have you been have you solely designed and how many golf clubs have you ever been passed off because I bet that's a huge amount yeah tough to say number um. But it at EGD you know if you've got a project that's your project we don't we're not you know the architect has that job nobody else yeah that you know you're putting your name to that golf course it's an EGD name obviously. But but you know we've got four architects in the company and if one any one of our four get a get the job that's that's your job um so yeah I mean well you know there are many there are many projects that have you know seen the drawing board. But not not seen the excavator hit the ground and that's a huge list but yeah yeah I mean probably 30 40 Projects yeah. So I've actual finished golf oh no not finished that's a problem how many how many finished probably 10 projects okay ten projects yeah. So so obviously we've had Robin Heisman on the podcast before who designed one of my favorite golf courses JCB he obviously he's a colleague of yours at EGD um and so when let's say the Ryder Cup golf course Marco Simone is is being pitched around are you what the four of you you're all like chomping at the bit to get involved. Or is that the powers that be that's kind of said no Davey's gonna be the best man. For this job uh well you're gonna have to ask Jeremy I mean I'm sure a secret secretly we were all. And quietly we were all like a big amazing well it is amazing um I I think a lot of it was timing you know like I was probably just a little quieter than the others in the office no way I I mean as I said give me a golf course please anything going um yeah. So yeah you'd have to ask Jeremy the the strategy behind who gets what job how much uh how much extra stress have you felt. Or pressure designing a golf course that in this week the whole golf world is going to be watching like this is it. And it's one event yeah this isn't you you know you've addressed the golf courses hosted Italian opens which it needs to do to be able to understand whether it can actually hold a Ryder Cup I get that. But this this is the whole reason why this golf course was built is the whole reason of all those hours. And all those sketches and every time an excavator hit the ground and it's been fully fully designed for this weekend yeah that is that's a good point now because normally you'd build a golf course many years ago. And it obviously gets um some Fame and some recognition and slowly but surely it might then.

Host an event but to actually create a golf course for that bespoke event you're creating a golf course for three days yeah which is mad I mean yeah talking about pressure I think I'm pretty much like to see myself as a duck you know like all comments on the surface. But the truth is yeah there's a lot of pressure on these look you know there will be a lot of nerves um that I see that as natural. And and like I'm just gonna turn the phone silly question when you say nerves obviously things like a condition of the golf course which I'm sure will be amazing that obviously comes down to the green staff. And superintendents Etc what is it that you're all kind of nervous about with people poo poo in certain holes. Or the length of it or what is it that's the bad things then.

What are the good things that you could hear as well well I think I mean look we're all involved in golf um you know I think every golfer is pretty much a armchair golf architect. So everyone's got an opinion yeah. So I mean look I I think I think the experience you know we've got you know some some amazing holes on the back nine you know risk reward I think there's going to be. So much drama um and yeah I mean look the golf course. For the Ryder Cup that that is the that is the the paper that's the exam paper. For those three days and I think yeah I think we we've had three Italian opens now. And and you look at the scores minus 12 minus 13 minus 12. you know it it provides it's not an overly long golf course but it provides a good challenge um and and I think um yeah. And as I say with with it with the um with those reward holes on the back nine you know people are going to be dealing in the golfers are going to be dealing in birdies. And Eagles on quite a few of those holes especially on the back nine so I think you know that's that's what you know we hope it's going to be remembered. For and obviously we hope it's going to come down to that final singles match on the Sunday um. But yeah which hole would you love it to finish on which which the obviously the 18th hole is the 18th hole it's a wonderful par five down the hill slight dug right to the left water down the left few really well a lot of very well placed bunkers. But as opposed to some degree that's not your finishing hole is it really like I'm guessing it's before that yeah I think I think I think I mean 16 would be great I think everybody will talk about 16. um. But I mean there is something you know it would be pretty amazing I mean I remember uh 2010 Celtic Manor. And and the throngs of people you know running watching that last match on 17t I mean that was that was something crazy yeah I was there that day yeah it was great. So I would I'd love it to to to happen like that because that was that was pretty special I suppose 16 well. And 17 to a lot of degrees really sets itself up for that huge Amphitheater finish where you could literally have a crowd 360 Degrees around 16 and 17. 16 being a short Par Four drivable with water down the right a couple of bunkers down the left thick left roof which uh I won't go into um and and that that for me when I when I actually think about the golf course that's the whole I think about well what was we our video will it be out yeah yeah because we did the match which will be out just been yeah. And then.

The and then.

The uh scramble that's coming out this we'll read it then.

For those people that haven't watched it yet those listening and watching but obviously we and Dave was there we played the 16th in very two quite different ways you went. For it I kind of laid up but I think that's a true hole like that gives the option doesn't it. And I think match play if that was if it was a close match coming down to 16 that can really make. Or break I mean I've got no doubt better ball you know at least one of them will be going. For the green yeah. And you know foursomes depends on the match situation really and same with singles well you know that'll determine the strategy of that whole you know if you if you're too up you'll be hitting a nine off the t-box and if you if you if you're too Down You're Gonna Be you're gonna be pulling a driver yeah is that what's your proudest hole on the golf course which hole are you most proud of. And it's interesting because even though we're filming this pre radical and I'm sure a lot of listeners and viewers won't really know the holes just yet like they might not have watched the Italian Open Etc they might not know the whole to hopefully they've watched our video and learn a lot more about the golf course um but I think from what you say here is gonna really help viewers. And listeners enjoy the Ryder Cup this weekend so any kind of insights even talking about your favorite hole yeah you know I mean I my favorite hole has always been 15 which is an extremely difficult powerful um I I don't know I just always like the way that that whole sets up of the tea um it's you know it it you know coming back to the routing. And the whole rhythm of that back nine where you've got like three really birdie bull eagles from 11 12 13. then.

You've got 14 15 which are really tough fours um I've just always liked the way that it's set up off the tee. And it you know it's a it's a really difficult hole slight dug leg up the hill yeah raised green any it falls from anything short of that green is going to roll back down the front it's a hard it's a long iron hitting into the greens off the back tees even. For the tour Pros they're gonna hit six and five it's the hole where you on your second shot you went left and you were kind of round near that tree yes roll back down the bank um. And I I hit driver either three iron or four iron I thought it was all over it. And it was actually short the green just in that false yeah um my really enjoyable stretch. And I'll I'll be dead honestly I didn't know anything about the golf course until we went a few weeks ago I hadn't seen much of it on the Italian Open I've kind of seen a little glimpse of his social media but not loads so I was really fascinating. And excited to see the layout of the golf course I thought I thought that the opening hole I think it's a fantastic opening Ryder Cup hole I really do I think with that grandstand around I went to I was saying before I went there um to Paris. For the radical in 2018 and I felt like the first hole was almost too hard yeah with the water down the left. And you really had to hit an unbelievable t-shirt there's quite a few golfers hit Good t-shirts and end up in the water yeah. And it kind of you lose a whole straight away well I feel like the first hole that Mark and Simone you can't lose a golf ball really you've got room right and left but obviously it still rewards a great t-shirt and in the amphitheater around that 30 is phenomenal Frontline I think the first time I played it I wasn't as excited yeah the second time I played it I fell in love a little bit more with the front line because you kind of I saw a lot more of of what even I just discussing it with yourself what you tried to do with the front nine I kind of saw a little bit more of that the second time I played five long after the par three. Or is that six that's fine that's a good hole that's incredible I mean that's that's going to be interesting number five because you know at the time when we designed the course we didn't know who the captain was going to be. So you know you're working as a team with Ryder Cup Europe we've obviously got all that experience from you know multiple uh hosting multiple Ryder cups but you know so we were trying to factor in a little bit of flexibility in terms of the setup um. And five was the one where you know. And and the green has had been designed accordingly you know like most people go why is the green not on the leakage well we didn't know whether they were going to play from the back to you. Or they're going to play from T's further forward. And give the players the option to go for the green so if the if the lake was on the green Edge nobody would be able to stop a three wood to a green that's sitting sort of perpendicular to the to the line of play. So um yeah. So five was one of those where we had to sort of factor in a little bit of well you just don't know what you know what you mentioned you don't think they're going to play that as a drivable powerful do you no I do I do know can you share. Or not I think I I think it looks like they're going to play it as a drawable nice yeah. So for me erotic Corp isn't about because it doesn't there's no end score like yeah it doesn't matter if if someone if it was a tournament week. And that's course was set up to shoot 25 under yeah I think that's a good Ryder Cup course personally because I think the Divide between someone shooting 25 125 over is actually not that different the setup because it's that risk. And reward personally for me as a radical golf course as a match play course but my personal favorite hole in the golf course I love I love the stretch of 11 12 the power five and I love 13. oh good oh well yeah I think 30. a little short par three with the old abandoned School in the background yeah the two couple of trees either side I think that is a a really. And it's not long it's only like 130 yards yeah that is honestly one of my favorite holes on the golf course that would be amazing I mean the hole in one. And I I you know there's such a hole-in-one pin on that yeah on that green on her front leftish one. Or friendly front right there's a little Bank behind it they can spin it back down roll it back down um you know. And there's those little things that we're trying to you know add to I mean the greens are undulating them um. But you know you've got if you if you think about you know like how these players are going to play that. And you know having undulating greens okay it fitted in with the site number one. But you know like that experience of The Spectator like you know watching the balls rolling and maybe taking that slope or running off over there exactly and that you're trying to build that in you're trying to that's what we were trying trying to do is it very different mindsets any other golf course that you've been a part of yeah it's been totally different I mean okay number one Marcus money will be forever known as hosting a Ryder Cup. So you you're trying to add quite a lot of risk reward holes match play golf um so yeah it's it's been different. And then.

You're obviously factoring in coming back to that jigsaw um just so many other things that you know I mean yeah I mean there were there were there were quite a quite a lot of challenges on the on through the project I mean you know we we had you know archeology you're in Rome you've got gas lines you've got electrical I mean we had high power gas gas I mean electric lines crossing the site um they all had to be re-routed around um you know this phasing of the construction work because you know ideally you want to build a golf course in one hit just close it down. But as a members golf course they always wanted 18 holes open for their members so we had to do nine holes at a time that made things longer. And then.

We had covert which was you know. So there was just like a lot of challenges you know along the way yeah that's that's crazy to think I'll answer it it would you describe it because I I obviously we played it. And at the time I would say it was a very very difficult Golf Course well. And I think I think a lot of that yeah was to do due with the rough yeah it was I think they're raw I don't think it was particularly stupidly long. And we played it quite far back as well didn't we it didn't really it wasn't long as we said no sorry the long the golf course we played it pretty much off the bat tease I didn't feel like it yeah it wasn't crazy no I didn't feel like it was a I was you're eating a lot of five irons. And fluorines into greens granted but you get that on a lot of Championship golf course there was some holes I think that played easier off the back tees what's the par five is it eight we played that as a part four sorry actually it is isn't it yeah if you drive it's that it's actually easier than going off a forward guy in. But but I felt like the the biggest protection certainly when we played it was how brutal the rough was I mean that's something that that's been planned is it something that's changed. For this Ryder Cup week so I mean the temperatures in Rome get really really hot through the summer. And in the past in the build up to the Italian opens when we've had it in September you know some of that rough is like it back dies. And then.

You know you don't get that lash nature that that weave so it goes around it goes Brown and and if especially if you cut it too short you're not going to get that growth through the summer. So it was a conscious decision. And unfortunately we just ended up playing you know they were trying to keep the rough higher to make sure that it stays alive when we were playing a few weeks ago. So it it was at a length that it's not going to be. For the Ryder Cup so I mean look is it that they're at that length now do you know not from the photos that I've seen okay I mean I mean you know if you go. So far offline it will be you know still pretty high. But the thickness and the consistency is all being cut back. And it's all as it should be and you know the the great thing that Lara and her team who Lara being the head superintendent um you know course was closed 28th of August you know they've got people those things can be primed. And dialed in you know so it's going to be it's going to be looking I dare say a lot a lot fairer I think there was a few because it felt like sometimes it was almost you missed the roof. And you are literally in a pitching wedge out yeah. But it was that I mean I don't know tour players are strong. And they'll probably be able to get a seven nine or six nine on it or whatever but it felt like and I'm glad kind of obviously it's being cut back Etc and the reasons why you just said makes a lot of sense even a step further than that look if you missed the Fairway there was a a spot. For probably two yards width where you could hit it and then.

You know maybe losing your ball after that literally you could miss a third by three or four yards you'd be the lost ball yeah I mean I mean look. For for the normal golfer you know that that was incredibly tough. But I mean in tournament conditions you know you're not going to be losing of all this there's going to be people spotting. And finding those balls um but the the maintained rough that's going to be maintained at let's say 90 to 100 Mil you know that's that's still Pro that's really difficult to play out. So so the the premium I mean what we found there was you know a premium on being accurate of the tea. And that's going to be what's that's going to be the challenge that these players are gonna gonna face. And is that steered via the European team because obviously it's a it's a European home Ryder Cup like we it's our Ryder Cup. So we do get to design the golf course then.

You know I'm guessing you deal as you mentioned closer with Team Europe European Ryder Cup team you're not particularly the USA team aren't particularly ringing you up. And and you're not really slow problems in one bit so when when the golf course is being set up. And we were talking about this before it felt like historically that the the old saying was kind of the Europeans were a little bit more not as long. But a lot more accurate where the Europeans the Americans would it further but be a bit more offline in is that still the case because I feel like now when you look at the the European team when we've got Rory McIlroy one of the longest drivers in the world John Ram again longest drivers in the world um Victor Victor I don't I don't I feel like stereotypes change now where maybe when Luke Donald was in the team rather than being the captain. And Poulter and Westwood and I would say that was a little bit more true. But I feel like the European team now isn't like Matt Fitzpatrick he's not a short hitter like he's a long long hitter I I don't see it there being a huge difference in distance off the team between team Europe and Team USA these days no I mean the the percentages are are. So small so small um but going back to your question about the setup I think you know Europe had success in Paris. And you know Mark uh Marcus Simone is going to be set up pretty similar yeah. So um you know whether that is something that will you know continue you know who knows. But yeah it would be fair to say that there that people will draw similarities between Paris. And and Marcus money it feels I mean obviously European great success in Paris. So hopefully for rules for Europeans it's the same again for um it was interesting we've seen images not. So long ago of Team Europe actually going. And spending quite a bit of time there because there'll be a lot of your the American players that have never ever seen the golf course or played the golf course before first question was obviously that's the tactic that you were Team USA are adapting. And understand that they need to know the golf course did you get any feedback from the American team. Or did you get nothing nothing you know that that is the exam paper that's going to be set. So you know like you know that's the course and you know and there will be of well I'm trying to put myself in the mind of a professional golfer. But they'll just be like well okay well that's the golf course let's you know where are we strong you know I mean look there. But these these professional golfers they're all you know the the comparison between Europe and America the percentages of you know who hits the ball further who's who's more accurate you know they're so minute I mean it's something maybe I'm not educated enough. But like when you look at actually the the European team and you look at where they play the golf if you've got Ludwig Fitzpatrick Tommy Tyrrell Hatton uh Victor Shane Lowry Rory Ram Justin Rose steps tracker they all play on the PJ tour anyway so I actually don't really understand anymore well this defining thing comes from too much of like other Europeans want this or need this versus the Americans want or need this because the planes the similar the same events week in week out anyway we've only really got a handful of guys who are actually kind of true European tour players I mean I think that the I think with Europe will be. And at an advantage is that every one of them except. For I think John. Or maybe a couple of a couple of them have but the majority of them have played Italian opens they've seen the golf course and they've played it in tournament conditions and I mean you know you would have found like wherever you go you know like the first game you played at Marcus money the second time you would oh no this I know it's a bit better yeah it's like everyone the more you know things the better you're gonna perform yeah definitely um. So I I think I think that's going to be an advantage um. So you know and and you know you know where not to miss or you know where the safe side is. But I mean these players are. So good that it doesn't take them long to work out with with the goodness and the bad misses no exactly. But um I think having played it under tournament conditions you know is going to help you know especially especially people I mean like you've got Nikolai hoygard past Champion uh Bob McIntyre you know they've played all three of them um I think that's I think that's an advantage with that being said obviously I don't know how much you want to say on this. Or not it's a couple of weeks late when this goes out but were you then.

Surprised that morank didn't um get picked being a winner there last year well yeah I mean he was the winner in May um yeah yeah. So I I I I think he's. So so unlucky but there is always somebody that's that that's really unlucky. And he he definitely he's always a 13. he was definitely that that guy um yeah I think it was it was a little bit of a surprise. But yeah you know yeah yeah when it comes to either cause setup. Or design or whatever and obviously then.

As you mentioned you were you were almost designing the golf course not knowing who the captain was there was then.

A change of captaincy during during the time with obviously Stenson then.

Switching over to um Luke Donald have you been in much talk with Luke Donald. And that so that team has there been much communication kind of around with the actual main people from the European team I mean there has been some I mean we've had a couple of course works we had we had one with Henry to start with. And a couple with Luke once he was made Captain um. So you know and and and to be honest you know like the CH the the changes from you know the original design and then.

The input from I mean henrik's input was you know he wasn't there that long. So so we hadn't you know you know taken on board you know what his preferences were. But um you know the change have been so minor uh you know like a couple of you know fairer lines and uh quick bunkers yeah I mean hardly anything which is. And are they doing that solely on preference. Or are they taking advice from analytics you know I know I know Eduardo molinar is a huge influence in the statistics Etc is is Lou Donald being influenced by that as well. Or is he actually just seeing what he prefers well I think a bit of both um you know. And that's what you know when you've got Edward because obviously you know he has that stats business he's Italian so you know that's a massive positive um obviously played in Ryder cups um you know in himself a great golfer so but I mean Luke's gonna have you know his views on things as well. So um but but it would be fair to say that the the stats side has played has played the part yeah as a golf fan then.

Which obviously you are. And somebody that knows the course literally better than anyone on the planet this week I can't talk uh were genuinely where does your kind of heart lie this week then.

Who do you think is gonna he's gonna win the Ryder Cup well as a fan I've always won Europe to win. So that would be great it'll be great if they won like 14 14 and a half 13 and a half on the 16th and everyone's everyone's celebrating how good the golf course is that's your one. But is that truly what you actually believe in. Or leading into this week you do you feel like they I I think they've got a great chance yeah I do. But but I do believe that you know I mean this is gonna sound. So simplistic but you know whichever team plays best because because the margins are. So small I think I think the team that plays best I think you're gonna you're gonna have to drive it incredibly well you know you you can't be playing from the rough. So you know drive it well um you know you you can look at the past winners of the Italian Open they've all chipped really well got up. And down really well so that's that's gonna be play a part I think um oh yeah look they're all. So good the team that plays the best is going to win. But that bet come back to your question at 100 when you're up to him yeah. And then.

Come Monday right after the article yeah you'll be releasing a hangover yeah yeah the USA team will be in the USA were you kind of relief big weight's been lift off your shoulders obviously successful ride a Corp you know people have loved the golf course it's it's give you that finish that you want I bet that's going to be a lovely feeling on Monday just going you paint a very pretty picture I'm also manifesting it. For you as well I want that to happen for yourself you know um I mean I feel like the Monday after. For a lot of people it's that kind of relief that we've you know a successful Ryder Cup has taken place this year because it felt for a long time this year that the Ryder Cup wasn't going to be as big as it normally is you know I suppose. For you guys as well keeping your finger on the pulse with what's happened with Liv and I bet it's like oh my this is this is the first Rider Corp since kind of the Inception of live. And not having as many key players as as or stale you know real Ryder Cup Legends and heroes who have been part of the radical for so many years you know this is a huge I think it's a huge tournament. For the Ryder Cup this year like if it still is as successful as ever brilliant you know. And we're all hoping it will be it feels like it's starting to get to that point I think. For me obviously again this podcast is coming out a couple of weeks later than we're recording it. So I'm sure by now that the real uh buzzing is that is there. But I think as well. For me it does feel a bit like changing the guard. So to speak obviously there's no pull to this year there's no Westwood I think regardless of live I think they in Stenson I think they were kind of at the end of the the career radical well as you look at some of the guys we have gotten again we'll put a bit more pressure on the shoulders of uh Ludwig aberg. But it feels like it's to start something new this time we've got a strong team you look at the guys there's a lot of Youth in there as well and some experience which is nice balance it feels like it's the start of something new. And I feel like once the open gets out the way and people have to think about the Ryder Cup more it's it's an exciting one this year yeah I think it's yeah well the excitement building. For us definitely um going back to that point on the Monday yeah you you you hope it's going to be great um you know we're confident that it's going to provide a good a good match um. But yeah I suppose you know you've been I've been involved here sorry. For about you know five six years on this project so you know I suppose there will be a little bit of you know relief. And a bit of weight off um but it's it's as I said at the start it's such an honor to be you know given this opportunity you know it's like a it's one of those once in a career moments. So you know that's uh yeah. And it's just around the corner it's fun I I've always personally and I think there may be some listeners. And viewers also of similar ill potentially I've always felt like I'm quite interested in um caused architecture and design like I actually see a future down the line you know whether it's setting up a little nine-hole golf course but actually getting into being able to design my own Golf Course like what would I what would I almost need to do I'm guessing just scribbling it down on a back of a piece of paper like you did like you did when you entered the golf world well yeah obviously um. But like I am fascinated in course design and I think I would take a lot of inspiration from nice places I've played. And certain elements to it and I would I would you know I feel like there's lots of I've been very lucky to play some incredible golf courses like I'd almost it'd almost be a hybrid of the things that I kind of like to see on a golf course really trying to fit into into a piece of land what what is the actual best way of going around actually designing the golf course let's say you have got a piece of land do you actually just start sketching where the holes could potentially be. And then.

Start looking at the top topology of where the land is going to be higher. And lower Etc well you're doing that all together I mean you're obviously let's take. For instance a blank canvas site but a topography you're trying to find out you know okay well where's the clubhouse going to be is that's normally a good starting point um. And then.

You're trying to see you know which holes you know would fit best in that land you know where there'll be particular green sites and tea sites that are good um. And and you just you're starting off by analyzing what those positives that the site give you will be. So a routing plan is the start. And making you know and I think if you get that routing plan you know nailed at the very beginning you're a long way to getting a good golf course. And and do you kind of have a particular style to your golf courses. Or would you because you know there's a lot of course designers like for example a McKenzie course design like there's there's traits that you know it's Mackenzie green or you know Alistair McKenzie designed it have you got any kind of traits that you live by uh not not particularly I I like to believe that you know no site is the same. So you know let the land tell you what it's you know what's going to fit this piece of land best um there are certain things that you you'll you will tend to have on most golf courses. So as an example um let's say you've got four par threes I always tend to like to have one long path three one short and two medium length ones and I think you know if you know you're going to have a tournament I think one of the things that you find a lot on tournament courses these days is just like really long path threes I think trying to yeah just staying away from that sort of thing um. But then.

You're also trying to like you know think about the shots of the player that you want to ask them to hit I think Marcus only is quite a good example that you know like that course you know you've got left to right you've got uphill Daniel um. So there there is a wide variety of shots on that golf course that we are expecting the player to hit. And I think that in an 18 whole you know new golf course you're trying to make sure you ask those those questions. And pose those challenges yeah throughout um. But yeah I think I think number one is you know see what the land is. And you know listen to the land and see what rooting what best greens teas and style will suit a particular piece of land are you do you have a particular favorite golf architect that you've followed the kind of Journey of um I think I think there's a lot of really good modern stuff coming out um. So I mean you've got your your Tom doakes. And you're causing your cringes and stuff um Gill hands you know they're all doing some some really really cool stuff um do you want to be do you want to be mentioned in the same name as those guys easy one step at a time ah look um who knows where I'll be at the end of my career. But I mean I mean incredible what do you feel like you need to do to get into the same kind of breath as as the guys you just mentioned they're not saying they're not already. But what do you feel like what do you feel like you have to do to get into that kind of category oh that's a really really difficult question I mean I think you know number one these guys are extremely talented um. But they you know they do get some amazing pieces of land to work on. And and you know sometimes you know not every project is this amazing Sandy waist area you know that's an amazing views with amazing views it's just you know unfortunately you know it's not I think um. But but one of the some of the things that you know that they do offer they do give you a lot of options a lot of width of the tees you know. And I think I think that's very important um you know just. So that it you know you you've got a yeah just give give the goal. For options just give them you know make it a bit easier make a bit more fun just follow on from that a little bit and this this might be a bit of a silly question but it's one that I want to ask anyway like when I go to a new golf course I often Focus primarily and maybe naively and stupidly on how I play and then.

Often would focus on the condition of the golf course how well the greens roll and things like that maybe even the clubhouse and it sounds like the food they serve Etc one thing I don't feel I'm qualified enough on and don't maybe think about enough is the course architecture. So what is any kind of simple things that kind of normal golfers if you like can look out. For to really appreciate your golf course because sometimes again there's obvious views by the Sea it always wins me over yeah. But sometimes we're all finger on if I like a golf course it often comes out to how well I've played it no it does it does. For 95 of people that's that's what it comes down to um views help I love a lot um yeah um yeah it's tough tough question I I personally I would I don't rank golf courses that I like on the way I've played them [Music] it's got amazing views I could not play well. And still enjoy it but after that if I went to a more normal golf course as not blasphine on the coast what else am I looking is it bunker because. For example at least you're gonna hate to hear this I'm not a massive fan of um Royal living which I know is one of the best golf course around people sell the bunker placements. But I don't see it I just know where my golf Ball's gone if it's not a bunker great hit it and move on it's an interesting point because I had the same I've only played living once uh at the same experience I you know it I the setting the setting does play a part. And I think you know. But people in our office absolutely love them uh they they've played it more times than I have and they they appreciate the Strategic challenge you know especially for good golfers like there are there are a certain set of bunkers on a particular hole which will come into play one day different day it'll be different bunkers. So you know so they you know like when we go there we are you know we are appreciating things like that you know like the challenges asking you know does this look the same as though okay well we want to make sure that you know it's a different challenge it's a different view you know you're looking you're looking to to you know pose as I say different questions all the way through the round um. And I think you know you're also I mean you know Marcus Mooney is not blessed with being next.

To the sea. But it does have some incredible views if it does you can actually see you can actually see the center of Rome still on that 11 the 12th T can't you yeah yeah. So you see Saint Peter's yeah um on on numerous uh tee shots. And you know you you know we're trying to you know get get that ingrained into your ex you know experience of the golf course but we are consciously rooting the golf course. So that those views come at key points in the round so they're on the back nine you know whether and for a Ryder Cup that's where the cameras are going to be that's where the drama is you know. And then.

Having that as the backdrop you know you're trying to factor in you know those views but but I mean like I could you know work project in in Saudi Royal greens you know that was a flat pancake Golf Course um. So you you're then.

Trying to add you know interest and challenge into into that it's like we recently at crail and there's some holes at crail aren't fantastic they're quite Bland yeah. But the fact you're on the side you're so good it becomes one of my favorite places to go to yeah it's not it's not I mean seventh oldest golf course in the world like it's not not had loads of architecture design on it like old Tom Morris kind of laid it out. And it's like that's it but like I love that golf course because of its position if that City suddenly got turned into a farmer's field it's gonna be the most boring course in the planet there's enough elevation to make it interesting but you're right it's not it's not but I think that comes back to like also set up. And and and the condition that you play the course in you know um like at Marcus money the rough was just. So like you go go offline and and after a while when we played it was just long you know I'm in the rough again I'm probably gonna probably can't find my ball except. But going back to you you know crail you know you can get it anyway as long as you don't go right. So if those experiences that you you know like and and to be honest like once the Ryder Cup's gone and Marcus money that rough's going to be cut down. And the golfers are going to be able to find their ball yeah you know. And it's going to be a whole different experience as well that's actually a good point that brings me until I suppose these results not result costs which were Ryder Cup hosts I.E a Celtic Manor. Or a bell free or obviously Marco Simone going forward they make the revenue against twofold firstly from hosting the rider caught back brings a lot of Revenue in. And secondly going forward the green fees that people want to go. And play a Ryder Cup golf course so does that then.

The setup must have to change. For the more average golf who's going to play it. So I guess they're going to move more forward T's obviously rough will go down yeah does that ever come into your mind during the build definitely yeah I mean. So fit and Fairway with I mean you know they're like 40 40 yards wide. For for the average golfer so it is factored in. But for the pros they narrowed down 18 to 25 yards but but you know that that's that comes back to you know you're wanting to challenge these guys you know and yeah you want to. But but with amateur golfers you know there are four T's you know the course is 7 200 yards off the back. But it's only 5 000 yards off the front so you know there's a there's a there's a big distance there so you know right at the very beginning you are factoring in. And you you know we know that 99 of the time it's going to be played by amateur golfers. But you know when you when we're playing it a month yeah before that you know they're trying to get this course primed. For the third biggest sporting event in the world that's how it is yeah I'm gonna get a World Cup final this must be the biggest. And then.

Second Super Bowl is it because yes wow yeah. So it's it's a it's a big event so the rough is going to be cut down it's going to be much more yeah it's gonna be much more playable I dare say the green speeds might not be as fast. But you know but but people also go there because they want to be challenged as well yeah yeah. So so you're sort of trying to strike that balance between you know making people go around and going back to crowd like I I want to play a golf course in the same ball yeah you know the last thing you want to be doing is digging in your bag. For six seven golf balls no I agree I think just going back to the golf course. And that Monday when you sit there hopefully with a cigar and it's all about well um I don't think I'll be I'm not going to be going it's radical up Ricky's possibly going now which is exciting. So I'm sure about time this podcast comes out you know and you'd probably be on the way there but I think people who I can guarantee will have a good time he's actually Spectators are actually at the golf course because again that first team we hit off in the amphitheater around us not only is that great. For the spectators there's so many Vantage points and it's such a a well laid out place I imagine anyone that's fortunate enough to have a ticket to go and watch it's all they're going to enjoy the golf. But we'll enjoy the viewing experience and it this is no criticism of the openings it's a different kettle of fish. But it's so different to watching golf at the open I can imagine anyway yeah it's been a bespoke design. For that in mind as well but the site gave us that you know so you know we knew there was a lot of potential you know. For the golf holes and The Spectators um and I think if you compare it to I mean Paris was fantastic. For The Spectators but you know it had in banking on yeah there was loads of greens with big banks around natural grandstands yeah not natural they made. But grass grandsons but I mean that was that was created as as possibly a you know a tournament course back in the day um. But the difference between Marcus Simone and and golf Nationals had got at um in Paris they you know you only saw that one golf hole so you're pretty much waiting for you know four matches to come through or if the singles more but at markets where you can find some Vantage points where you can see. So much more yeah because it's you know it's this 50 meters of elevation change whereas the golf National is like five meters on every hole. So I think the grandstand on the side of 30 T is an unbelievable spot yeah because you can see the par three you can see the shots into 12. you can see the shots on the tee shot on 16. you can see the seventh the par three across the water you can see the first yeah yeah second to Second t-shirt you can see 40th t-shirt yeah my background's done on the side of 13 I think it's unbelievable I think you can see a hell of a lot from there. And I think even the grandstand on the right of seven the par three you know I'm sure I'll be um that's all I shanked into the one you shanked it into I think it's just a a tradition yes it is you you're very good at keeping today.

If I'm playing a golf course the grand stand up I will shank one at least. And uh that I think that that point as well even though you're a bit lower. And even on the left side of 16's unbelievable spot yeah I think. So left side of 16's probably one of the better spots as well um but you've got to so you've got a fat time I think I think I think that that went on 12. And 13. I mean every match is going to get there I love that one I can sit there all day because you've got the hole in one chance you've got the power five you got the I just think that's a great spot to be in one question to order. And this obviously isn't your role but you've ever considered I suppose some some like The Belfry or a Celtic Manor pulse Ryder Cup does get. So much footfall because of the fact of the location certainly The Belfry I think when we went to obviously Marco simonian played it we had a great time. But it does feel very much like it's a random place. For a golf course at the side of Rome really how do you foresee in the future more golfers go in. And play in there do you think it's part of a European trip. For Americans where they might do Rome. And then.

Go over to Ireland and Scotland or or do you even see the gulf in Italy you know because you you hope. So I mean look the Italian golf Federation have the golden ticket you know. And it's it's up to them to maximize you know this opportunity because you know this is the biggest opportunity they will ever get to you know improve um you know. And increase the the numbers of of players in Italy so um you know whether whether people will will travel I mean I can see people traveling from from the US to go. And play you know a Ryder Cup course and you know taking their family because Rome is one of the greatest cities in the world. So so there is that attraction. Or the tourists like we expect we went into Rome I couldn't believe how busy Rome was that was insane it was. So busy and so many Americans and and tourists there that it doesn't surprise me if they'd shut the clubs in or hire a set of clubs and nip over to Marco Simone because like say it's 30 40 minutes away from the center of town and I think as well a credit to you. And the whole point of what the golf course has set up for clearly but like we had a kind of a somewhat friendly match myself at Rick obviously but if you were going with a group of guys it literally obviously is. So such a good match play golf course it really is it's perfect. For match play if um just a couple of last question a more intrigued on your kind of golf architecture background what what is actually your favorite Golf Course like from an architectural standpoint the old Course Saint Andrews yeah absolutely love it really yeah really love it that's a really surprised me yeah I don't care well uh yeah I mean I've played it numerous times played it quite well there as well um. But I just love the way you just can just plot your way around you know. And yeah I think I like uh you know working things out you know I love doing. And just working out how to play that one and I don't like it and it's just and I mean it's like. But it's like every golf course you know and every shot you're weighing up that risk versus reward you know and I think San Andreas you know like I'll just keep playing left because you know. But but I know the reward is going going right. But I'm happy to take my chances going left. And keep you just keep my ball in play and just steady away and yeah it seems to have worked I I love the old course I love Saint Andrews it is literally we were there just a couple weeks ago. And it we we took some American friends with us and it was I was actually quite proud to show him around like saying Andrew like some people don't get it though sometimes you know because it is quite initially you like it's quite a High maybe not from a golf architectural standpoint from experience because the emotions just. So good I've been lucky enough to play it five or six times now stand that First Tee like nothing else there's nothing I don't feel nerds like it anywhere else in the world like it is just. But it's like it's not it's not nerves from a bad shot it's more like pressure that you stood somewhere where everyone stood like this is this is the Holy Grail I mean if tomorrow you went back to European Golf design okay meeting guys new project Dave it's your next.

Project straight after Marco Simone which you might already be on where would that site be what's your dream site. And you don't have to measure it by Sandy certain on the CH would be amazing that's that is that is it that's it yeah oh there we go oh it's incredible the land yes that Muirfield owns what they've not done anything with it. Yet it's incredible yeah there we go that would be a dream sight that would make one of the best one more question before we wrap this up maybe give our listeners we've got a lot of people listening obviously clearly you're hardcore golfers let's take the old course out of it maybe give them a golf course you should go. And play that's a you know a top one they will have heard of. But there may be a bit more of a Hidden Gem that you think kind of deserves a bit of love. So let's just say you might go with you've got to go and play Carnoustie for example he got candy to top on um what's the big course people will know obviously you think you should go. And play but then.

Maybe a bit more of a Hidden Gem that's maybe a bit more realistic for Price Point Etc well I think um cruden Bay yeah I think that's fantastic um this one also happens to be on a coastal site. But I I went to University in a place called Port Elizabeth it was really windy. So you know I enjoy playing in the wind it just happened well couldn't play we played in in a gale and then.

This other course also played in the Gale and it was on the you know it was on the west coast of England. But I thought paramporth if you've been down to Cornwall just yeah what's that one called paranporth Parent Portal yeah lovely amazing course if you like rugged rugged rugged golf experience blind holes up down all over the place it's fantastic oh yeah absolutely I did crude. And Bay with Sir Nick Faldo and it was. So outrageously windy we played like five holes and it was it was near enough unplayable we're the only ones out there. But the site was. But I'd love to play it on a lovely camera and that's another thing that massively changed your perception we went there it was such bad weather all we're thinking about really was let's get in I hope the audio was okay on this video if that was a nice Summer's evening I think would have walked away going that's the best course on the planet yeah yeah. So it's lovely the good thing about five is it sort of sort of comes close to the clubhouse again I think we're actually started on three the par three near the village okay like the fourth. Or something yeah okay we did a bit played a bit of everywhere we actually did you can do that yeah we actually designed a hole our last hole we were up on this big tea box I can't remember what what hole it was now. And we we played backwards down this hill we made this part three which was unbelievable. But the elevation change was ridiculous you've already started your foreign honestly as I've played more golf courses I do I appreciate views a lot. And I think I measure golf courses a bit too much on views. But I definitely appreciate nice designed well thought out risk reward um not too punishing yeah I think I'd make my golf course too punishing. Or too difficult I think you can make it harder without making it longer as well yeah I think obviously tall golf is very much about 7 500 yard golf courses now I don't think you need to make a golf course longer to make it harder um you know you can you can be clever in the way that you're making Fairways narrower put pins behind there at certain spots I think this is a good job at that with the old course last year because that could have been ripped if they yeah if that was just on a normal July not having it open it would have been 30 under 40 under. But the fact they've managed to keep the score was it 20 under I think cam Smith ended up winning on 19. Or something like that was I that was fairly acceptable considering they've not learned in the golf course that much past 17. But yeah I would love to get into it I think in the future there'll be a rickshaws golf design course. And I I think then.

I'll probably go radical [Laughter] um excellent Dave you've been amazing um Good Luck this week thank you very much I feel nervous. For you um but you've done you've done an amazing job I think it's a golf course that definitely when I when we played it it grew on me um I liked it the first time I loved it the second time I think the guys. For the Ryder Cup are gonna really really enjoy it I think from from a match play perspective in a radical Golf Course can be amazing. For spectators it's gonna be even better and uh hopefully Monday you'll be I'll see you we'll both be hungover smoking a big fat cigar celebrating your uh Triumph end of your before we wrap this up so right tomorrow's a fictional day it's a sunny day okay okay it's a private jet outside. For you ready or a helicopter have you please you can either go. And play Marco Simone or JCB which is also designed by Robin European golfers whoa well the thing is if I had a private jet I think you'd be wasted on JCB yeah go down. So helicopter's a different question no I I like I I don't know obviously you've got different designs perspectives on it. But I like both golf courses a lot and I think the more I've played them. And I've played obviously used to be a hell of a lot I enjoy it more I play it and I think with Marcos I own it I would love I would love it more I played it yeah I think I'm getting a bit like that now with golf courses It's probably hard. For me to judge one a golf course I've only played once I think I'm actually starting to appreciate playing it once. And going I like that playing it again. And going you know I really like that playing it again. And going you know I actually love it you know. And I think that's there's not many more trip to Italy than to Rome the three of us yeah Monday after the ride cup yeah a little yeah with our cigars. And champagne right guys everyone thanks for listening Dave good luck with everything um and enjoy the ride of cup everyone it's gonna be epic go team Europe and we'll see you next.